The Art of Sales

Welcome to The Art of Sales, by Gray Matters – the podcast that redefines selling. Sales isn’t just about cold calls and spreadsheets; it’s a craft. We’re here to help you turn selling into a fulfilling pursuit by focusing on empathy, psychology, and truly understanding your audience. In a fast-changing world of new technologies, evolving buyers, and shifting economies, adapting is key. Whether you’re in sales, running a business, or leading marketing, this podcast will help you embrace change and continuously learn. No more sales-as-usual. This is The Art of Sales.

20 episodes

1mo ago latest

fortnightly cadence

English language

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Episodes 19

Cutting Through: Lessons from a PR Legend
1mo ago · 50:00:00
Andrew Bloch built and exited Frank PR, one of the most talked about agencies in the country, before turning 26 years of contacts and experience into a portfolio spanning non-exec advisory, agency M&A, brand and agency matchmaking, and continued work alongside Lord Sugar. In this episode, he tells Adam Graham what actually made Frank stand out in a market where most agency brands are interchangeable, from a hand-drawn website that won design awards to a founding belief that a real USP has to be unusual rather than unique. Andrew is blunt about how few agencies get this right, and why "our peop
The Art of Winning Less
2mo ago · 48:00:00
Kerry Gibson has spent over 12 years in new business, working at some of the world's most well-known agencies. In this episode, she sits down with Adam to talk about what it actually takes to win and why focus is the ingredient most agencies consistently underestimate. From a landmark Sainsbury's pitch won on the chemistry of an existing team, to the realisation that a new business director's real skill is packaging people rather than knowing everything, Kerry brings rare honesty to a role that is often misunderstood. She also talks about burnout, the importance of permission culture, and the
The New Rules of Outbound
3mo ago · 49:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam Graham speaks to Dan Englander, founder of Sales Schema and host of the Digital Agency Growth Podcast, about how outbound has changed and why agencies need to rethink the way they build relationships. Dan shares how his business moved from doing lead generation for agencies to helping them build and own their outreach function in-house. The conversation explores why old-school cold outreach has lost its edge, how AI is adding to the noise, and why trust has become the real currency in agency growth. Adam and Dan also discuss specialisation, referrals,
From Gut Feel to Data-Led Sales
4mo ago · 40:00:00
Most businesses choose a CRM before they understand their sales process. That, according to Mitch Richards, Chief of Staff at Future Group Agency, is where it all goes wrong. In this episode of The Art of Sales, Mitch breaks down what it actually takes to build a revenue operation that works, from mapping your full customer journey using the Bow Tie Funnel methodology, to configuring a pipeline your sales team will actually use. He shares a practical framework for pipeline health, a countdown-based approach to renewals management, and a clear-eyed view on why CRM adoption fails when the tool i
The Brief is Never Just a Brief
5mo ago · 45:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam is joined by Janita Lakhanpal, Business Development Director at Ketchum UK, to explore the real power behind great sales conversations. Janita shares how her first new business win started with one brave conversation at a trade show, and how her approach has evolved from trying to impress to creating genuine mutual value. They discuss the courage to ask direct questions, the instinct that comes from seeing hundreds of pitch decks, and why new business is far more creative than it’s often given credit for. The conversation also moves into leadership and
Gravitas: The Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance
6mo ago · 41:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam is joined by Catherine Allison to unpack why most pitches are won or lost long before the creative idea is judged. Drawing on the What Clients Think survey, Catherine explains why 71 percent of pitches fail due to softer factors like chemistry, confidence and how teams show up in the room. They explore the fine line between confidence and arrogance, why agencies often default to broadcast mode, and how pitching should feel more like a conversation than a performance. Catherine introduces the Gravitas Equation: Knowledge + Purpose + Passion - Anxiety =
From Music Dreams to Sales Reality
6mo ago · 45:00:00
In this episode, Chris Muldoon shares the story behind Punch, the sales and entertainment agency he co-founded after an early entrepreneurial stint in music. He explains how Punch evolved from a sports and entertainment agency into B2B lead generation and sales development, overcoming the challenges of commission-based models by adopting more scalable approaches. Chris reflects on key milestones, including implementing the EOS framework to bring structure and clarity to rapid growth, and navigating the cultural shifts brought on by remote working during COVID-19. He stresses the enduring value
Women in Sales: Leading without the Hard Sell
7mo ago · 56:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam Graham sits down with Eniko Tarkany-Szucs, who leads strategic partnerships at LinkedIn, to explore what selling looks like when trust comes before targets. Eniko shares her career journey from early social media roles into SaaS, sales leadership and partnerships, reflecting on how her approach has softened over time as relationships became the real long game. They unpack why the best sales feels more like theatre than pressure, the importance of reading the room, and how confidence often matters as much as competence, especially for women in sales and
2025 review: Agency Sales
8mo ago · 11:00:00
In this short end-of-year solo episode of The Art of Sales, Adam reflects on what 2025 really felt like for agencies and founders. Not the highlight reel, but the realities beneath the surface. He touches on familiar themes from the year: longer sales cycles, tighter budgets, plenty of ghosting, and why being busy didn’t always feel secure. Adam also shares a few thoughts on how AI moved from novelty to normal, and why clear thinking and positioning matter more than ever. Looking ahead to 2026, he offers a handful of simple principles for navigating what’s next, with a reminder that clarity, c
Pitch Story: Creature London x Jose Cuervo
8mo ago · 47:00:00
This episode of The Art of Sales takes us inside the global rebranding of Jose Cuervo - Adam Graham speaks with Hanisha Kotecha, former Client Chief Officer at Creature London and Aileen Cotter from Proximo Spirits. This conversation explores how the world’s number one tequila set out to shift long-held perceptions and show the spirit’s true versatility. Aileen shares the realities of leading a global brand across markets with very different drinking cultures, legal frameworks and expectations. Hanisha lifts the lid on Creature’s pitch process, how they built trust early, and why strategic cla
From Comedy to Culture: Leading Without the Bullshit
9mo ago · 52:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam talks with Laura Tannenbaum, CEO of Fabric Social and co-founder of That Lot, the social agency that redefined how brands show up online. Laura shares her journey from journalism to agency life, from local newspapers in Cambridge to building one of the UK’s most culturally tuned-in creative agencies. She reflects on the early days of That Lot, the power of reactivity in social, and the lessons learned from growing an agency from four people to 150 in just a few years. Now leading Fabric, Laura talks about scaling fast but right - protecting culture, ch
Building Smarter Sales Systems
9mo ago · 36:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam sits down with Matthew Isales, founder of Isales Solutions, to explore how structure and systems can transform the way small businesses sell. From earning $4 an hour in a Dominican Republic call centre to running a global sales consultancy, Matthew shares his journey into the world of CRMs, automation, and scalable sales processes. They unpack why most CRMs fail, how to fix broken sales pipelines, and the balance between process and personality in modern selling. Expect practical advice on building sustainable systems using tools like Pipedrive, how AI
Pitch Story: How The Gate won Smarty Mobile
10mo ago · 53:00:00
When Smarty Mobile set out to find a new creative partner, they weren’t just looking for great ideas, they were looking for a true collaborator. In this episode of The Art of Sales, Adam speaks with Jamie Elliott, CEO of The Gate, and Sayed Hajamaideen, Head of Brand and Marketing Communications at Smarty Mobile, about the pitch that led to the award-winning “Less Malarkey, More Smarty” campaign. They unpack what made the partnership work from day one, from The Gate’s culture-first approach and data-driven storytelling, to Smarty’s belief in transparency, trust, and creative bravery. You’ll he
The Psychology of Pitching
10mo ago · 49:00:00
Adam Graham sits down with Marcus Elliott Brown, founder of The Great Pitch Company, to explore what really makes a pitch unforgettable. Marcus shares how his background in theatre, sales, and advertising shaped his approach to helping agencies win work, not through tricks or templates, but through authentic human storytelling. They unpack the anatomy of a great pitch, from qualification and preparation to emotional connection and performance. Marcus explains why the best agencies pitch less but win more, how to avoid “resting pitch face”, and the difference between looking hungry and looking
Building Bridges Between Agencies and Brands
10mo ago · 58:00:00
In this episode, Chris Kemp reflects on his 20-year journey in business development and the founding of Ingenuity, the agency–brand connector he launched at just 25. He shares how early challenges shaped the company’s growth and how strategic acquisitions helped diversify and strengthen its offer. Chris explores the evolution of pitching culture, highlighting the enduring role of creativity, personal relationships, and innovative tactics such as events and PR. He stresses the importance of tailoring approaches to each agency and brand, staying adaptable in a shifting marketing landscape, and b
How Procurement Powers Creativity
10mo ago · 57:00:00
What does it take to run marketing procurement for one of the world’s biggest brands? In this episode, Rachel Wentzel, former Director of Global Marketing Procurement at Adidas, joins us to unpack how the brand balances creativity, efficiency, and collaboration on a global scale. Rachel shares how Adidas has evolved under CEO Bjørn Gulden’s leadership, why in-house production has grown so rapidly since 2020, and how the brand continues to push for inclusivity and authenticity in every campaign. We dig into how agencies can build stronger relationships with procurement, what really drives partn
The Human Side of Sales in a Digital-First World
11mo ago · 43:00:00
This episode of The Art of Sales features Tom Nation from Sandler, whose career began in hospitality before moving into sales. The conversation highlights how soft skills such as listening, building rapport and reading people remain essential in today’s sales environment. Tom discusses the outdated stereotypes that still damage the image of sales and explains why it should be treated as a professional craft rooted in psychology and trust. He shares how technology, data and AI are reshaping prospecting, but stresses that sales still depends on mindset, coachability and discipline. Prospecting,
Quality Over Quantity: Strategic New Business Development
11mo ago · 49:00:00
In this episode, agency experts Oli Richards and Ellie Ring unpack what it really takes to win new business in today’s oversupplied, competitive market. They explore how creative and media demands have shifted towards short-term, project-based work, and why agencies need to build distinctive brands and stronger client relationships to cut through. The conversation highlights the importance of rigorous qualifying criteria, chemistry meetings, and confident selectivity when deciding which opportunities to pursue. Oli and Ellie also share practical advice on client retention, empowering agency te
The Two Bobs Story: The Courage to Specialise
11mo ago · 50:00:00
In this episode of The Art of Sales, I sit down with David C. Baker, one of the most respected voices in the agency world. David shares his journey from graduate school teacher to running his own consulting practice, including the story of how he accidentally built an agency with no prior experience. We talk about the origins of the Two Bobs podcast with Blair Enns, why it deliberately avoids guest interviews and even how the film Office Space inspired its name. Our conversation explores positioning, the value of specialisation, and the difference between coaches and consultants. We also touch

Episodes

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The Art of Sales

Episodes 19

Cutting Through: Lessons from a PR Legend

The Art of Winning Less

The New Rules of Outbound

From Gut Feel to Data-Led Sales

The Brief is Never Just a Brief

Gravitas: The Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance

From Music Dreams to Sales Reality

Women in Sales: Leading without the Hard Sell

2025 review: Agency Sales

Pitch Story: Creature London x Jose Cuervo

From Comedy to Culture: Leading Without the Bullshit

Building Smarter Sales Systems

Pitch Story: How The Gate won Smarty Mobile

The Psychology of Pitching

Building Bridges Between Agencies and Brands

How Procurement Powers Creativity

The Human Side of Sales in a Digital-First World

Quality Over Quantity: Strategic New Business Development

The Two Bobs Story: The Courage to Specialise

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Episodes 19

Cutting Through: Lessons from a PR Legend

The Art of Winning Less

The New Rules of Outbound

From Gut Feel to Data-Led Sales

The Brief is Never Just a Brief

Gravitas: The Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance

From Music Dreams to Sales Reality

Women in Sales: Leading without the Hard Sell

2025 review: Agency Sales

Pitch Story: Creature London x Jose Cuervo

From Comedy to Culture: Leading Without the Bullshit

Building Smarter Sales Systems

Pitch Story: How The Gate won Smarty Mobile

The Psychology of Pitching

Building Bridges Between Agencies and Brands

How Procurement Powers Creativity

The Human Side of Sales in a Digital-First World

Quality Over Quantity: Strategic New Business Development

The Two Bobs Story: The Courage to Specialise

Podcast 森辺一樹のグローバル・マーケティング〜すべてはアジアで売るために〜