On episode 13 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Josh Wills to explore how AI agents are reshaping software engineering, data science, and data infrastructure. They discuss verification, benchmarking, pre-training data pipelines, multimodal AI, and why understanding a problem may matter more than writing code. Josh also shares lessons learned from decades of building large-scale data systems and his journey from management back to hands-on engineering.
On episode 12 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Maxime Beauchemin to explore what happens when software teams start working alongside armies of AI agents. Max shares the thinking behind Agor, his collaborative platform for orchestrating coding agents, and reflects on how AI is reshaping engineering, product, design, and data work. They also dive into the future of agentic workflows, technical collaboration, and what human roles may look like in the years ahead.
On episode 11 of Data Renegades, CL Kao sits down with Michael Stonebraker, legendary database pioneer and creator of Ingres and Postgres. They explore the origins of modern relational databases, why specialized systems outperform one-size-fits-all platforms, and what today’s AI hype gets wrong about enterprise data. Stonebraker also shares hard-earned lessons on startups, research, and staying relevant over five decades in tech.
On episode 10 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Toby Mao. They explore how real-world data problems at Netflix and Airbnb led to the creation of SQLGlot and SQLMesh, and why data modeling remains the hardest challenge in data engineering. The conversation also dives into how AI is reshaping engineering workflows, without replacing the need for strong architectural thinking.
On episode 9 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Wes McKinney, creator of Pandas and co-creator of Apache Arrow. They explore how AI coding agents are reshaping software development, why data infrastructure remains surprisingly resistant to automation, and what semantic layers mean for the future of analytics. Wes also shares bold predictions about “radical accountability” in software and the changing bar for startups.
On episode 8 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Scott Breitenother to explore how AI is reshaping the modern data stack and redefining the role of data teams. They discuss the evolution from spreadsheets to autonomous agents, the realities of data democratization, and why future workflows may revolve around one human working alongside multiple AI assistants. The conversation blends practical lessons from building Brooklyn Data and Kilo Code with forward-looking predictions about the next wave of data tooling.
On episode 7 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Bryan Bischof to explore his journey from pure mathematics to building real-world ML systems. They dig into recommender systems, surprising data bugs, and why truth-seeking should guide data teams. The conversation also covers modern data tools, visualization limits, and the realities of “self-serve” analytics.
On episode 6 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson speak with Roger Magoulas about the real bottlenecks holding data organizations back. From the origins of “big data” to today’s explosion of tools and pipelines, the conversation focuses on why understanding, semantics, and communication matter more than ever. The episode is a call to shift from constant firefighting toward curiosity-driven insight.
On episode 5 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Benn Stancil to explore how data tools evolve, and sometimes lose their identity. Benn shares lessons from building Mode, the risks of drifting from an opinionated product vision, and why most companies struggle to turn data into meaningful decisions. The conversation also dives into the future of BI in a world increasingly shaped by AI and unstructured data.
In episode 4 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Micah Wylde. They trace his journey from building fraud detection at Sift Science to architecting massive real-time systems at Lyft and ultimately founding Arroyo. In this conversation, Micah breaks down the real complexity of streaming systems, why schema evolution is still the hardest challenge in data, and where the industry might move over the next five years.
On episode 3 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson sit down with Maxime Beauchemin. They explore the origins of Airflow and Superset, the evolution of open source in the data ecosystem, and how today’s tooling reshapes the role of the data practitioner. Max also shares a forward-looking perspective on agentic workflows and how AI is accelerating everything from BI to pipeline development.
In episode 2 of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson speak with Simon Willison. Together they dive into the origins of Datasette, the evolution of data journalism, and the surprising ways open source tools shape global reporting. Simon also explains how LLM-based agents will redefine data cleaning, enrichment, and analysis. A must-listen for anyone building or scaling data teams.
In this debut episode of Data Renegades, CL Kao and Dori Wilson dive into the unconventional paths that led them into developer tools, civic tech, and machine learning systems. CL recounts his experience building early open source infrastructure, mobilizing communities through data transparency projects, and now shaping how we design software around LLMs. This episode sets the tone for the show’s mission: celebrating builders who redefine the boundaries of what tools can do.
